Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/13/1996 01:14 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 13, 1996
1:14 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Brian Porter, Chairman
Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative David Finkelstein
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bettye Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 364
"An Act amending the definition of the offense of unlawful
interference with voting in the first degree, a class C felony, to
include conduct related to inducing a person to vote or to refrain
from voting at an election and conduct related to acceptance of
something offered or given to vote or to refrain from voting in an
election."
- MOVED CSHB 364(JUD) FROM COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 311
"An Act repealing the limitation on the hours a person may be
employed in a mine; and making a related technical amendment to
avoid changing the penalties for failing to make payments into an
employee benefit fund."
- MOVED 311(JUD) FROM COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 365
"An Act relating to the offense of possession of tobacco by a
minor."
- MOVED HB 365 FROM COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 517
"An Act relating to records and hearings of the Department of
Public Safety; relating to a temporary permit to drive a motor
vehicle; relating to regulation of motor vehicles and commercial
motor vehicles; relating to renewal of a driver's license by mail;
increasing the property damage amounts for proof of financial
responsibility and proof of motor vehicle eligibility in order to
lawfully operate a motor vehicle in the state; relating to certain
notifications in accidents involving property damage; relating to
motor vehicle registration procedures; and providing for an
effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 364
SHORT TITLE: UNLAWFUL INTERFERENCE WITH VOTING
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
12/29/95 2361 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/08/96 2361 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/08/96 2361 (H) STA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/11/96 3078 (H) STA REFERRAL WAIVED
03/13/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 311
SHORT TITLE: REPEAL LIMIT ON HOURS EMPLOYED IN MINES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY,Toohey,Martin
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/18/95 1351 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
04/18/95 1351 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY
01/24/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17
01/24/96 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
02/07/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17
02/07/96 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
02/14/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17
02/14/96 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
02/28/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17
02/28/96 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/06/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/06/96 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/08/96 3020 (H) L&C RPT CS(L&C) NT 3NR 1AM
03/08/96 3020 (H) NR: SANDERS, ROKEBERG, KOTT
03/08/96 3020 (H) AM: PORTER
03/08/96 3020 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, LABOR)
03/11/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
03/11/96 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
03/13/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 365
SHORT TITLE: MINOR IN POSSESSION OF TOBACCO
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE,James
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
12/29/95 2361 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/08/96 2361 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/08/96 2361 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
02/19/96 2812 (H) COSPONSOR(S): JAMES
02/27/96 (H) STA AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 102
02/27/96 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/05/96 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/06/96 2989 (H) STA RPT 4DP
03/06/96 2990 (H) DP: JAMES, PORTER, OGAN, ROBINSON
03/06/96 2990 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DPS)
03/13/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
WEVLEY WILLIAM SHEA
Attorney at Law
329 F Street, Suite 222
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907)
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 364.
DIANE SHRINER
Election Outreach and Training Coordinator
Division of Elections
State of Alaska
P.O. Box 110017
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0017
Telephone: (907)465-4611
POSITION STATEMENT: Represented Division of Elections regarding
HB 364.
ED FLANAGAN, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Labor
State of Alaska
P.O. Box 21149
Juneau, Alaska 99802-1149
Telephone: (907) 465-2700
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the Department of
Labor, with regard to HB 311.
DON ETHERIDGE
Alaska State District Council of Laborers
709 West 9th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907)586-3707
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the Alaska State
District Council of Laborers, with regard
to HB 311.
CLYNT NAUMAN, General Manager
Kennecott Green's Creek Mine
Juneau, Alaska
Telephone: (907)789-8110
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Green's Creek
Mining Company, regarding HB 311.
REED R. STOOPS, Lobbyist
240 Main Street, Suite 600
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907)463-3223
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Green's Creek
Mining Company, with regard to HB 311.
JAMES F. CLARK
Attorney at Law
801 West 10th Street, Suite 300
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907)586-3340
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Green's Creek
Mining Company, with regard to HB 311.
STACY GOADE
2154-C Lawson Creek Road
Douglas, Alaska 99824
Telephone: (907)364-3418
POSITION STATEMENT: Representing the Juneau Tobacco Prevention
Network and the Seven Circles Coalition,
with regard to HB 365.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-34, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER called the House Judiciary Committee meeting
to order at 1:14 p.m.. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives Porter, Bunde, Toohey, and Green. Representatives
Vezey and Finkelstein arrived late. Representative Davis was
absent.
HB 364 - UNLAWFUL INTERFERENCE WITH VOTING
Number 0015
CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER announced that the sponsor, Representative
Con Bunde, would read the sponsor statement.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE read the sponsor statement for HB 364, as
follows: "As United States citizens, we have the right to vote no
matter who we are or where we live. In Alaska our election process
covers such a vast area that many people must travel great
distances to vote. Despite some inconveniences we have a civic
duty to vote for or against the candidates, propositions and
questions on our state ballot and nobody has the right to interfere
with the voting process.
"The impetus for HB 364 is Dansereau v. Ulmer, which deals in part
with unlawful interference with voting in the first degree. This
case occurred after the 1994 Gubernatorial election and has yet to
be completely resolved. (The complete case is available in the
committee packet.)
"The purpose of HB 364 is to align our state election law regarding
unlawful interference with voting in the first degree with the
federal election law. Alaska statute defines the crime of unlawful
interference with voting in the first degree by requiring proof
that a person was paid to vote for or against a particular
candidate, proposition, or question. Whereas, federal election
only requires proof that a person first was offered a prohibited
incentive and then voted.
"HB 364 amends AS 15.56.030 (a) by removing the requirement to
prove that an incentive to vote must be for a particular candidate,
proposition, or question. This proposed legislation only requires
proof that a person first was offered a prohibited incentive and
then voted. This change strengthens the prohibition against the
use of some incentives for voting.
"This proposed legislation is an important change to our election
statutes. It clarifies that voters in Alaska cannot be paid for
their vote. I urge the support of all legislators."
Representative Bunde then invited questions from the committee.
Number 0369
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that Wevley Shea would testify via
telephone, from his office in Anchorage.
WEVLEY WILLIAM SHEA, Attorney at Law, stated he wished to testify
because of the gross inequities which occurred in the 1994
gubernatorial election. He explained that the suit which prompted
the legislation was brought by ten voters. The lawsuit itself did
not allege wrongdoing by any of the candidates, but rather by third
parties. Mr. Shea read from the court's decision in the Dansereau
v. Ulmer lawsuit, as follows: "The right to vote encompasses the
right to express one's opinion, and is the way to declare one's
full membership in the political community. Thus, it is
fundamental to our concept of democratic government. Moreover, a
true democracy must seek to make each citizen's vote as meaningful
as every other vote, to ensure the equality of all people under the
law." Mr. Shea further explained that the decision states it is
the legislature's responsibility to address the parameters of
voting in the state of Alaska.
Number 0623
MR. SHEA further explained that, according to the decision, "In
stark contrast with federal law, Alaska election law does not
prohibit paying voters." He proposed several wording changes to
the bill, as follows: On page 2, line 3, change the word "at" to
"in". On line 11, begin the sentence with "Offers of", rather than
"offers to". Delete Section D 2, subsection (2). He also pointed
out that the Attorney General has never admitted there were any
problems at all with the election. Mr. Shea commented that he
personally spent 1,235 hours working on the Dansereau v. Ulmer
case. He stated that the legislature would be doing a grave
disservice to the citizens if it did not examine the conduct of the
Attorney General with regard to this case.
Number 1134
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN commented that he was sorry that
Mr. Shea lost his case.
MR. SHEA responded that he did not lose his case, as Representative
Finkelstein was well aware.
CHAIRMAN PORTER interjected that all conversation in the committee
must go through the Chair.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN observed that much of Mr. Shea's
testimony was unrelated to the bill. He stated that the
administration has a responsibility to assure that elections are
not overturned for relatively minor matters.
Number 1206
DIANE SHRINER, Election Outreach and Training Coordinator, Division
of Elections, stated that the division supports HB 365, including
the amendments in the CSHB 365(JUD) draft. She explained that the
Division of Elections frequently receives calls concerning the
legality of certain procedures, and the proposed legislation
clarifies the intent of the law.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the division supported the idea of
removing Subsection (d)(2) from Section 2.
MS. SHRINER responded that the administration does support the
language changes proposed by Mr. Shea, including removing Section
2(d)(2). She thanked Representative Bunde for introducing the
bill.
Number 1325
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for clarification. On page 2, line 3, would
the division object to changing the word "at" to "in"? Or, on line
11, beginning the sentence with "Offers of"?
MS. SHRINER responded that she had not studied the bill in detail,
and was not prepared for Mr. Shea's comments. She stated that she
would trust the committee's expertise.
Number 1360
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted that the phrase "offers to" was
already included as a qualifier, prior to the term "other valuable
things." He stated that the phrase "offers of" was not necessary.
Number 1360
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that he had distributed an amendment
with proposed wording changes. He noted that the phrase "offers to
pay" was not the same as "offers for a game of chance." He
therefore encouraged the committee to accept the proposed changes.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated that the bill drafter had
suggested removing the phrase "offers of," in order to avoid a
compound reference.
Number 1431
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there were any further questions.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a motion to insert the word "in" to
replace the word "at" on page 2, line 3.
Number 1520
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY noted that the committee had not
adopted the draft CSHB 364C. She moved that the House Judiciary
Committee adopt CSHB 364, version C, as the working draft. There
being no objection, CSHB 364C was adopted as the working draft.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE renewed his previous motion.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted the motion would be amendment number 1.
There being no objection, the amendment was passed.
Number 1575
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that the House Judiciary Committee pass
amendment number 2 to CSHB 364C.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted the amendment would delete page 2, line 18
page 2 line 21, and page 2 lines 22 - 24.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that he had separated the issue of
lines 22 - 24 from the first half of the proposed amendment
Number 1524
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted for the record that amendment number 2 would
change page 2, line 11 after (A) to insert "offers of" and on page
2, line 14, after (B) to insert "promises or offers of.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN pointed out that the proposed wording
was redundant.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied that he read the wording differently.
CHAIRMAN PORTER concurred that the phrase "offer" in Section A did
not also apply to Section D.
Number 1760
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted that Section D was only a
definitions section.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE concurred that the phrase "offer to pay" could
be removed from page 1.
Number 1810
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if Representative Bunde would then be willing
to withdraw his amendment. Amendment number 2 was withdrawn.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated he had an amendment relating to
Section 2 B, page 2, lines 19 - 21. He explained that he agreed
with the intent of the bill, but was afraid the language was too
limiting. He did not believe the bill intended to prohibit post-
election parties which were non-partisan in nature, but rather were
sponsored by civic groups in an effort to encourage voting.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied that he believed the bill as worded
did not exclude those types of events.
Number 1906
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated that he believed the phrase
did need to be broadened. He suggested asking the bill drafter to
reword the phrase "gathering in support of or in opposition to a
candidate."
CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested adding the phrase "in support or
opposition to an election."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN suggested adding the phrase "encouraging
voting." He stated he had no problem with the word "incidental,"
but wanted to specify the types of activities allowed.
Number 2025
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked if the members were discussing
something other than voting.
CHAIRMAN PORTER responded that they were not.
Number 2036
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated that the wording should make
it clear that encouraging voting in general was not disallowed.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the committee would consider adding on
line 21, page 2, changing the semicolon to a comma, and adding the
phrase "or that generally encourages voting;".
Number 2090
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN moved that the House Judiciary Committee
adopt amendment number 2 to CSHB 364.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted for the record that since the previous
Amendment Number 2 had been withdrawn, this would in fact be
considered Amendment Number 2. He further noted that the proposed
amendment would make the following changes: on page 2, line 21,
adding the phrase "or that generally encourages voting;". The
Chairman asked if there were any objections.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that he would object, only because he
felt the Division of Elections should be consulted.
Number 2135
MS. SHRINER expressed her opinion that the committee should not
start down a slippery slope. Since the bill is dealing with the
issue of offering items of value in return for voting, the word
"incidental" is a key word. She further stated that the Division
of Election would not have a problem with after election
gatherings, so long as prizes were not offered.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN commented that he felt the witness
misunderstood the proposed amendment. He explained that the phrase
"purpose of the gathering" was being clarified.
Number 2240
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY urged the members to be cautious. He
stated that the proposed amendment was not as innocuous as it might
appear, and that it would actually open a window regarding what
incentives could be offered at a meeting to encourage voting.
Number 2254
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted for the record that the bill
drafter needed to clarify that the phrase "that generally
encourages voting" only modifies "gathering." He explained that
the concern being expressed was that the phrase could modify "food
and refreshments."
CHAIRMAN PORTER responded that he felt the record clearly described
the committee's intent. He reiterated that the amendment only
related to the fact that the purpose of the gathering was to
generally encourage voting, and did not modify what incentives
could be offered to that end.
Number 2270
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if the committee's intent was that the
amendment would include a banquet located near a polling place.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN responded that the question was a good
one, but that it did not relate to the proposed amendment.
CHAIRMAN PORTER agreed that the question did not relate to the
proposed amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded that he did believe the committee
was changing the intent of the bill.
Number 2315
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated that the bill's intent was
not to discourage events held only for the purpose of encouraging
people to vote.
Number 2331
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE responded that he would sustain his objection.
Number 2364
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a roll call vote on Amendment Number 2 to
CSHB 364C. Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Vezey, and Green voted
No. Representatives Finkelstein and Porter voted Yes. Therefore,
Amendment Number 2 failed.
Number 2370
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that CSHB 364C as amended with attached
fiscal notes and individual recommendations be moved from the House
Judiciary Committee.
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that, there being no objection, CSHB 364C
with attached fiscal notes and individual recommendations was
passed out of the House Judiciary Committee.
HB 311 REPEAL LIMIT ON HOURS EMPLOYED IN MINES
Number 2419
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the next order of business to come
before the committee was House Bill 311.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY introduced the bill, and explained that
current laws regulating underground mining have been rendered
obsolete by mechanization and new health and safety standards.
TAPE 96-34, SIDE B
Number 2396
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY further explained that most states have
already repealed their 8 hour underground mining laws. He asked
that the sponsor statement be entered into the record, as follows:
"HB 311 "An Act repealing the limitation on the hours a person may
be employed in a mine," ... was introduced to correct the current
statutes that contemporary, advanced underground mining technology
have made obsolete. The source of the original legislation is
found in 43-2-1,2&3 ACLA 1949.
"At the time this legislation was introduced, underground mining
was performed by people using hand tools, pneumatic drills and push
cars. There were no state or federal safety or health laws like we
have today. There were also no wage and hours laws in those days.
The explosives used in those days produced large amounts of noxious
fumes and ventilation was almost non existent. Air operated drills
used without water and wetting agents produced large amounts of
dust. Silicosis was a serious occupational hazard. The methods
used to prevent cave-ins and inhalation of foreign material were
primitive, at best.
"Times have changed and so have the methods used to mine
underground. Today's underground mining activities are performed
by machines with the operator supervising the operation. The
health safety standards are among the highest in the world.
Accident and injury rate are among the lowest for any industrial
occupation in Alaska. They are almost half that of the norm for
the construction industry. The engineering methods of insuring
safety have also dramatically improved.
"HB-311 will result in increased wages for miners, increased
profits for mining companies and more miners working in more mines
for all Alaskans."
Number 2354
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY noted that while reasonable restraints on
mining operations are needed, the industry has great economic
potential, and should not be subject to unreasonable regulation.
He further noted that miners themselves do not oppose the bill. He
reiterated that the mining industry is one of the safest in the
United States. He stated that in the past five years, there has
only been one fatality related to underground mining in the state
of Alaska. He emphasized that the fishing, logging, and
construction industries are not subject to any similar constraints
on number of hours worked. He further emphasized that the jobs
provided by the mining industry are high paying jobs. He stated
that last year, many of the committee members toured the Green's
Creek mine, and observed the working conditions. He reiterated
that there has been no opposition to speak of from the miners
themselves, and that various surveys indicate people working in
mines overwhelmingly support working more than 8 hours per day. He
noted that while the original HB 311 totally repealed the work hour
limitations, the Labor and Commerce Committee substitute does not
give the industry due credit. Representative Vezey stated that he
would propose an amendment to CSHB 311.
Number 2308
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that three witnesses were present to
testify regarding HB 311. He also noted the presence in the
committee room of Ramona L. Barnes, former Speaker of the House.
Former Speaker Barnes declined Chairman Porter's invitation to
testify. Chairman Porter then invited Ed Flanagan, of the
Department of Labor, to testify.
ED FLANAGAN, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Labor, testified
that the Department of Labor opposes HB 311. He stated that the
long and productive mining history of the state of Alaska was
accomplished under the present law. He recognized that there is
always some part of the world where an industry can work with less
regulation, or with no regulation, but the state of Alaska is
fortunate that the productivity of our workers and the wealth of
our resources has allowed us to counteract those forces. Mr.
Flanagan noted that none of the mining projects coming on line have
been recognized as being contingent upon this change in the law.
He further stated that the Commissioner of the Department of Labor
was opposed to the original HB 311. The department does appreciate
the considerable amount of time the House Labor and Commerce
Committee spent on the bill. Because CSHB 311(L&C) addresses the
concerns raised by the department, the department has removed its
opposition to CSHB 311(L&C). Mr. Flanagan further noted that
Commissioner Cashen's father and grandfather were both employed
during the 1920's in the Alaska Juneau Mine, so he was well
acquainted with the issue. He emphasized that the commissioner and
the department both support the mining industry. However, both the
commissioner and the department feel it is critical that any
expansion beyond an 8 hour work day be allowed only on a case by
case basis.
Number 2045
MR. FLANAGAN further noted that in the seven years since 1989,
three underground miners have been killed in Juneau. He explained
that sub-contractors must be required to adhere to the same
standards as mine operators. Therefore, the Department of Labor &
Commerce adopted a provision which would allow up to 10 hours of
work per day, in the event that a variance was granted by the
commissioner, or a bona fide collective bargaining agreement was in
place. He stated that, in his testimony before the Labor &
Commerce Committee, the representative of Green's Creek Mine
explained that their schedule basically entails 6 hours of travel,
beyond the work at the face. With a blanket 10 hour allowance,
those miners would be facing a 16 hour work day. The department
feels that would be cause for concern. He further stated that
Green's Creek would like to get a camp on-site, for the convenience
of its workers, and the department supports this. However, a
federal permit is required, which may not happen.
Number 1970
MR. FLANAGAN reiterated that variances to the 8 hour work day must
be granted on a case by case basis. He referred to the "so-called"
expert testimony delivered in the Labor & Commerce Committee by Mr.
Duchon, a psychologist who had a contract with the Bureau of Mines.
According to Mr. Duchon's testimony, extended work days were no
problem. Mr. Flanagan quoted from the summary of Mr. Duchon's
study, as follows: "The Bureau of Mines reviewed the literature
studies related to safety and performance issues of extended work
days. The report presents a study of those findings. Studies
examined in this review are divided into three sections:
laboratory, field, and accident and injury analysis. In general,
results are inconclusive. Studies have shown both positive and
negative effects. It is concluded, therefore, that in an industry
such as mining where accidents are a serious concern, special
measures and evaluation in the use of extended work days be
considered." He explained that such consideration was exactly what
the variance procedure adopted by the House Labor & Commerce
Committee would allow for.
Number 1909
MR. FLANAGAN further stated that the Department of Labor was
opposed to the proposed CSHB 311(JUD). The department does support
CSHB 311(L&C). He did note, however, that allowing an exclusion
from the provision for mechanics, warehousemen, and electricians
was ill-advised. He stated that the current language, which refers
only to a person employed underground, is preferable, because there
could be situations where a mechanic or electrician could be
involved in work at the face. Mr. Flanagan then invited questions
from the committee. He urged the members of the House Judiciary
Committee to seriously consider CSHB 311(L&C).
CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that the bill presently before the House
Judiciary Committee was CSHB 311(L&C). The committee has not yet
adopted the proposed CSHB 311(JUD), which mandates that the work
day limit be raised to 10 hours, with a variance to 12 hours.
Number 1838
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked about the three miners who have been
killed in Juneau since 1989. What part of their shift were they
killed in, and were they killed underground?
MR. FLANAGAN responded that the miners were killed during a
regular, 8 hour shift. One fell down a shaft at the Kensington
Mine, one was wrapped up in a drill underground, and the other was
crushed by a falling slab.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY then asked if the prohibitions of the bill
would include locations underground, such as the electrical shop,
that were not involved in actual mining.
MR. FLANAGAN replied that the 8 hour limitation applied to work at
the face only.
Number 1724
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if the law actually included the term
"at the face." It was his understanding that the law only referred
to "underground."
MR. FLANAGAN responded that the existing law does reference work
"at the face." He read from AS 2310.410, subsection B, as follows:
"It is the purpose of this section to limit the hours of employment
in 24 hours to 8 hours of actual labor at the face, or other place
where the work or labor to be done is actually performed."
Number 1672
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY then stated, the statute reads: "A person may
not be employed in an underground coal mine, underground lode mine,
underground placer mine, underground coal lode or placer workings,
or other underground mine or workings, for more than 8 hours in
24." He further noted that current Department of Labor regulations
define the work hours as being portal to portal.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that the regulation being referred to was a
clarification of the term "labor performed," in a different section
of the statute. It relates to what is time worked for purposes of
pay. He stated that Section A, which Representative Vezey quoted
from, goes on to say: "Except on a day when a change of shift is
made, excluding an intermission of time for meals or otherwise
going to or from the place where the work is actually carried on,
whether in going on or off shift or in going to or returning from
meals." Mr. Flanagan said it was his understanding that "B"
clarified that section.
Number 1614
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY then asked if it was Representative Flanagan's
interpretation of the current law that miners could work at the
face for 8 hours, excluding travel time.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that was correct, so long as there was not
another location where work was actually carried on. The actual
time worked could not exceed 8 hours.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked about work outside the mine.
MR. FLANAGAN replied that work outside the mine was irrelevant to
the section in question.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that people in the industry believed
they were restricted to 8 hours of work per day including travel
time within the mine.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that they had not asked the department.
Number 1588
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that the mining industry in Alaska
has been all but dormant for the last 30 years. He asked if Mr.
Flanagan would consider it to be robust.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that the economics of underground mining,
rather than time worked underground, was responsible for the
situation.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY reiterated that mining has been a very small
industry in the state for the past 20 or 30 years. He stated that
this past year the mining industry has probably tripled in size.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that the tripling referred to had occurred
under present law.
Number 1522
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that most of the mining presently
occurring is surface mining, not underground. He then asked why
Mr. Flanagan felt that the state needs to regulate mining more
closely than industries such as logging, fishing, aviation, or
construction. He stated that during construction of the tunnels at
Bradley Lake and Snettisham, the crews worked underground 12 and 14
hours per day.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that he was associated with the Bradley Lake
project, on site, for approximately 17 months, and that he was not
aware of any regularly scheduled shift that exceeded 10 hours. The
tunneling crew worked 8 hour shifts. The shaft crews occasionally
worked 10 hour shifts. He stated that, at Snettisham, anything in
excess of 10 hours was rare. He further stated that the state
actually regulates the construction industry more heavily than it
does the mining industry, since mining is primarily the purview of
the Mining Safety and Health Administration (MSHA). The state has
also worked closely with the logging industry to reduce fatalities.
Number 1358
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked if the proposed legislation applied to
mines other than underground mines.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded that the legislation applied to any
underground mine, but not to open pit or other types of mines.
Number 1315
DON ETHERIDGE, Alaska State District Council of Laborers, testified
that the district council supports CSHB 311(L&C). He stated the
district council cannot justify jeopardizing lives in order to
increase company profits. In the Labor & Commerce Committee,
miners testified about the dangers of the mining industry. He
further stated the district council can not understand why the
mining industry is opposed to the Department of Labor's variance
proposal. If the company can prove that conditions are safe
enough, than the variance would be granted. He pointed out that
even the fishing industry has begun regulating itself, in order to
increase safety. He reiterated that the district council cannot
justify risking working people's lives simply to increase profits.
Number 1214
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that extra hours worked would also
translate into extra pay for the miners.
MR. ETHERIDGE responded that this was why miners would not
voluntarily enforce the 8 hour day themselves.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY stated that she believed the legislation had
been proposed at the suggestion of the miners.
MR. ETHERIDGE replied that workers will often work under unsafe
conditions, because they need the money. He stated that is why
regulations are needed.
Number 1144
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the fatigue factor was discussed in
the House Labor & Commerce Committee testimony.
MR. FLANAGAN responded that it was discussed. He stated that
Andrew J. "Bear" Piekarski, who worked in the mines, and was
injured in a cave-in, testified that an 8 hour shift was all that
could safely be worked.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if there were statistics which showed
the relationship between hours worked and number of accidents.
MR. FLANAGAN stated that there were no new, specific statistics
related to mining. Data collected in 1987 shows that accidents do
increase after the 8th hour of work.
Number 1038
CHAIRMAN PORTER called on the next witness, Clynt Nauman.
CLYNT NAUMAN, General Manager, Green's Creek Mine, stated that the
discussions in the House Labor & Commerce Committee did not include
the statement that people would be working 16 hour shifts at
Green's Creek. He stated that Green's Creek supports a change in
the number of hours a person can spend underground from 8 to 10
hours, and that they do appreciate Representative Vezey's efforts.
If longer shifts were permitted at Green's Creek, they would
encourage employees to stay on the island. At the present time,
Green's Creek employees are away from home 12 hours per day. In
those 12 hours, a miner works 5.7 hours at the face. The remainder
of the time is commuting and travel within the mine itself. He
explained that this is the real issue. Mr. Nauman further stated
that, so far as Dr. Duchon's testimony was concerned, it was his
recollection that the studies concerned 12 hour shifts, not the 10
hour shifts proposed by Green's Creek. He stated that Dr. Duchon's
testimony also showed a change from 8 to 10 hours was not a safety
issue.
Number 0863
MR. NAUMAN went on to say he was confused about which version of
the bill was being considered. He stated that the variance system
proposed in CSHB 311(L&C) was not supported by Green's Creek,
because the extension of work hours would then be at the discretion
of the Commissioner of Labor. If substantial sums of money were
invested in an operation, and the variance was disallowed, then the
operation would not be economically feasible. He further stated
that Green's Creek anticipates restarting its mining operation
later in 1996. At that time they will have 250 employees. They
presently have 150 employees, of which 80 percent are Alaskans. He
stated Green's Creek intends to implement a strong policy of local
hire. If the work day could be extended from 8 to 10 hours, then
employment could be offered to appropriately qualified Alaskans.
He stated that workers from other communities cannot afford to move
to Juneau. He further stated that Green's Creek has to complete in
a global marketplace. In order for capital dollars to be invested
in the mining industry in Alaska, the law needs to be changed. He
pointed out that when Green's Creek originally went into
production, the mine's profitability depended upon keeping costs
below net revenue realized. In 1993, when Green's Creek shut down,
the costs were relatively high. He stated the company wants to
achieve as many efficiencies as possible, so that the people
working there can remain employed for the next 15 years. Finally,
Mr. Nauman stated that he was prepared to offer amendments to the
various versions of the bill.
Number 0463
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked Mr. Nauman if he had ever worked
an 8 hour shift underground, and if so could he describe his
experience.
MR. NAUMAN replied that he had managed mines, working 8 hours and
longer underground. He stated he had not personally noted, nor had
he managed any mines where the safety record had been any different
after 8 hours and up to 10. He stated he had managed a deep
underground gold mine in the Northwest Territories of Canada, where
provisions were in place to extend shifts under special
circumstances.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated that he had toured the Green's
Creek mine, and that after 50 minutes underground he was ready to
climb the walls.
MR. NAUMAN responded that one of the major issues for Green's Creek
workers was time off with family. He stated that an underground
employee would earn approximately 20 days more time off with his
family, if working 10 hours underground at the face, versus working
8 hours underground at the face.
Number 0345
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN then asked if the miners would not then
want to pursue the issue themselves, as part of the collective
bargaining process. He asked if the real issue was extending the
allowable work day from 10 hours to 12.
MR. NAUMAN replied that he did not understand why the table should
be tilted for or against organized labor. He stated that the real
issue was jobs, and the extension of the work day.
Number 0225
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if the 10 hour work day could not
be achieved under CSHB 311(L&C).
MR. NAUMAN responded that Green's Creek is not happy with the
proposed bill, because a variance or permit procedure is not
substantive enough to encourage investment necessary for the
facilities to be put in place. He stated the second issue is that
the proposed legislation contains no procedure for the variance to
be granted.
Number 0152
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if it would be in order for the
committee to adopt CSHB 311, version O.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there were any further questions for Mr.
Nauman.
Number 0030
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if the extended shifts were put in
place, how would the schedule work.
MR. NAUMAN replied that his proposal would be to place the ferry on
a twelve hour rotating basis. (gap due to changing tape)
TAPE 96-35, SIDE A
Number 0018
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN pointed out that the proposed
legislation was no different from the way the state regulates other
occupations. He stated that if extended shifts can be worked
safely, then the Department of Labor would grant a variance. He
further stated that CSHB 311(L&C) was a reasonable bill, and
recommended that the committee not adopt the proposed Judiciary
Committee substitute.
Number 0111
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Mr. Finkelstein if he thought it was fair to
ask investors to make substantial investments, when an operation's
profitability depended on the granting of a variance.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN responded that the proposed legislation
would allow an extension under certain circumstances. He stated
that the only issue was 8 to 10 hours, versus 10 to 12. He further
stated that a case had not been made that 12 hour shifts would ever
be safe. He also observed that human beings were not evolved to
work underground for long periods of time.
Number 0193
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY commented it was a shame that no miners were
present, as they would totally disagree.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN observed that workers on the North Slope often
work 12 hour shifts. He stated that he believed human beings are
resilient, and that if employees want to work safely, and are
trained to work safely, then the accident rate will be minimal.
Number 0259
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that coal miners he had talked to
loved working underground.
Number 0259
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was any further discussion on the
adoption of CSHB 311, version O. There being no further
discussion, a roll call vote was taken. Representatives Toohey,
Vezey, Green, Bunde, and Porter voted Yes. Representative
Finkelstein voted no. CSHB 311(JUD), version O, was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE announced that Amendment Number 1 was being
passed out to committee members. He made a motion that the
amendment be adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN objected.
Number 0329
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE called on Reed Stoops to testify.
Number 0332
REED STOOPS, lobbyist, stated he would testify on behalf of Green's
Creek Mining Company. He stated that Mr. Jim Clark, who actually
drafted the proposed amendments, was also present. He further
stated that Mr. Flanagan's testimony may have negated the need for
the proposed amendment. He asked if Representative Vezey would
agree that the change was no longer necessary.
CHAIRMAN PORTER stated he was under the impression that Mr.
Flanagan's interpretation of the law was correct, in that the 8
hour day related to time actually worked.
Number 0429
JAMES F. CLARK, attorney for Green's Creek Mining Company, stated
that there is a regulation which does limit the time underground to
8 hours, as opposed to actual time at the face excluding travel
time. He further stated that workers would be paid for all time
actually spent underground.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if a copy of the regulation was available.
He then asked if the proposed bill would solve the problem created
by the regulation.
MR. CLARK replied that it would.
Number 0549
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if Green's Creek still desired the proposed
amendment.
MR. STOOPS replied that they did not.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted for the record that Amendment Number 1 was
withdrawn.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY made a motion that CSHB 311(JUD) be passed out
of the House Judiciary Committee, with individual recommendations
and attached zero fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN announced that he would not object.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked the record to reflect that he invited
Representative Finkelstein to visit Fairbanks, and to work in a
mine.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN declined.
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that CSHB 311(JUD) with individual
recommendations and attached zero fiscal note, was passed out of
the House Judiciary Committee.
HB 365 MINOR IN POSSESSION OF TOBACCO
Number 0615
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the next order of business to come
before the House Judiciary Committee was HB 365.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE paraphrased his Sponsor Statement, as follows:
"House Bill 365 plugs a loophole. We have a pervasive problem of
tobacco use among our young people throughout the United States,
and especially in Alaska. In 1992, the federal government passed
what is called the Synar Amendment. This requires that states do
random, unannounced inspections of locations where tobacco is sold,
and try to reduce illegal sales or sales to minors. Currently,
Alaska is not able to comply with this federal requirement for
compliance checks. Current law would indicate that the young
people who are used to achieve these compliance checks could
conceivably be charged with Minor in Possession, and adults who
work with them could be charged with Contributing to the
Delinquency of A Minor. I introduced HB 365 to ensure our state's
ability to conform with the compliance checks that are required by
the Synar Amendment. It allows young people to work in tandem with
law enforcement agencies to complete compliance checks regarding
the sale of tobacco to young people. If there are no compliance
checks, we do stand to lose some federal support. This legislation
would eliminate current obstacles to carrying out compliance
checks, and would then reduce the illegal sale of tobacco to our
young people."
Number 0729
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced the first witness would be Annette
Marley, of the Alaska Native Health Board. He then announced that
her testimony would be in letter form only. Chairman Porter then
called on Stacy Goade.
STACY GOADE announced that she would read a statement on behalf of
the Juneau Tobacco Prevention Network and the Seven Circles
Coalition. She read from a prepared statement, as follows: "The
Juneau Tobacco Prevention Network and the Seven Circles Coalition
have been working during the past year to conduct underage
compliance checks as part of an effort to reduce youth access to
tobacco products in Juneau.
"The Juneau Tobacco Prevention Network is a grass-roots group
working to reduce the harmful effects of tobacco usage, especially
among youth. The Network takes a comprehensive approach to tobacco
issues, and is focused on four strategies. The Network believes
all four strategies are necessary and important if we are going to
protect children from tobacco addiction. The first strategy is
education and cessation programs. The second is addressing tobacco
advertising to youth. The third is tobacco tax increases. Fourth
is youth access to tobacco products, which is what HB 365 will help
us with.
"The Seven Circles Coalition is a regional coalition which seeks to
assist communities in creating effective strategies, with youth
involvement, to prevent the use of alcohol, tobacco, and other
drugs and violence among youth. Seven Circles has provided staff
and financial support to help the Tobacco Network achieve its
goals, especially around issues involving youth access to tobacco.
"The Juneau Tobacco Prevention Network became involved during the
past year in trying to limit illegal tobacco sales to underage
youth in Juneau. This project was initiated due to concerns that
educational efforts in the schools, churches, and at home were not
working, but in fact were undermined when children were able to
walk into a store and easily buy an illegal tobacco product.
"We began our compliance checks last May, using 8th grade 14 and 15
year old youth. During the first series of compliance checks, we
found that out of 42 purchase attempts, 17 resulted in an illegal
sale to a minor. This is an underage purchase rate of 40 percent.
We found also that youth have an even easier time purchasing
tobacco products at locations in the Mendenhall Valley, where the
majority of the youth in this community live, with an underage
purchase rate of 55 percent.
"It was disturbing how easy it was for these 14 and 15 year old
youth, who are all well below the age of 19, which is the legal
age, how easy it was for them to buy tobacco from our local
retailers. Following the compliance checks, we educated the
community and the retailers about the problem of youth access to
tobacco products. Managers at all establishments were contacted
and alerted to concerns about illegal sales to minors, as well as
the clerks, and provided with materials to educate the clerks and
signs to post at every check-out stating the law regarding sales to
minors. The retailers were encouraged to talk with us and help us
ensure that underage youth were not able to purchase tobacco
products at their store.
"During the follow-up compliance checks two months later, during
November and December of 1995, we found clerks were more
conscientious about preventing illegal sales to minors. This time
we made 45 purchase attempts, with only 9 resulting in illegal
sales. The purchase rate for underage minors was then reduced to
20 percent. Again, managers of establishments were contacted, and
the names of those retailers continuing to sell tobacco products to
underage youth were publicly released.
"Additional educational support was offered to retailers, and in
the future we hope to conduct a final series of compliance checks
which provide immediate feedback to the clerk and the store
manager, through either working with the Police Department to issue
citations, having youth notify the clerk after the sale has been
made that it was an illegal sale, and by contacting the store
manager immediately following the purchase attempt.
"The legislation being considered today will help to provide legal
police support in conducting our follow-up compliance checks and
enforcing state law. Up to this point, because it isn't allowed,
the police have been very reluctant to be involved with the so-
called sting operations.
"Although our efforts demonstrated a significant reduction in
illegal sales of tobacco to youth, the problem of youth smoking in
Juneau has not gone away. In our compliance checks we primarily
used younger teenagers, and the youth participating were instructed
not to lie about their age directly, and to lie if asked for ID.
In real life youth attempting to buy cigarettes and chewing tobacco
will lie about their age, and they will use fake ID. They also
will get older teenagers to purchase for them.
"For these reasons, although we strongly believe in compliance
checks as an excellent way to encourage merchant compliance, they
are only one piece of the puzzle, and must be used in combination
with other strategies to prevent tobacco addiction among youth."
Number 1037
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there were any other witnesses. Seeing
none, he announced the public hearing was closed.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a motion to move HB 365 from the House
Judiciary Committee, with individual recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked the bill sponsor's permission to
amend on the tobacco tax.
CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that, hearing no objections, HB 365 was
passed out of the House Judiciary Committee.
Number 1143
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting of the House Judiciary Committee was adjourned at 3:20 p.m.
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